This POed me big time.
Fr. Montero says
"quoting authorities is a sign of intellectual prowess."Wow! Look at his avatar. He is wearing his academic garb. Now that is prowess, aint it? First of all Fr. Montero, if you are engaged in an intellectual discussion, being rude shows your characted. Engage the issue at hand. Don't go into name calling! If you are in an academic discussion, who in our green earth would you quote? If that were your maxim, then who would rely on? Poor academicians...poor lawyers...poor scholars...poor doctors...poor Anscar Chupungco...poor Piero Marini....poor Annibale Bugnini...they all quote authorities.
He further says,
"Assuming that card ratzinger said that "dancing is not a form of expression for the Christian liturgy", it is not a doctrinal statement."Yes, Father it is not. But it is a FACT. Dancing WAS NEVER a part of the Christian liturgy. It only became an addition, without the approval of authorities such as the Holy See, after Vatican 2. It was NEVER mandated by the Council nor was it ever endorsed by the Holy See. So where in the world did you get the authority to do so? From your bishop? Maybe. But remember, the bishop draws his authority from the universal authority of the Holy Father. You owe your obedience to your bishop and to the Pope. But I guess, you have problems with authority, do you?
He continues,
"assuming that it is true, then we have to recourse to scriptures that showed David danced when he worshiped (even naked)"
Now this where the danger lies. This is the same argument my Born-again(st) (Catholic) Christian (?!) friend told me why they dance when they worship. First of all, let us put things in perspective. Kind David was dancing and worshiping OUTSIDE of the official Jewish liturgy, meaning he was dancing NOT when the High Priest was offering the sacrifice. Do not be fooled by liars such as this! Liturgical dance has been wonderfully inculturated to us by the Spanish missionaries. Look at the Sinulog of Cebu and the fertility dances of Rizal province. These were not forbidden by the Spanish missionaries who Christianized the islands but they were done NOT WITHIN THE MASS. This is where the liturgical bullies want you to believe. That is is OK to just do anything you want with the Mass.
And finally,
"real liturgist [sic] know the difference between worship and simply rubricism"
Oh yeah, we too Father. Rubricism is going through the motion of the liturgy without internalizing what is going on. It is as if a robot is offering Mass. I have seen a lot of those. Homily would go on for 30 minutes but the Canon would be done in 10. Worship uplifts your spirit and draws you to the divine. It is not the singing and the dancing that uplifts you, but the worship itself. You can be drawn to the presence of Christ by a Mass without songs and definitely without the need for dancing.
By the way Father, did the people clap to praise the Lord or to praise the dancing of the children?
No need to quote authorities on that do we? It is a no brainer.
And oh just a reminder...
If you cannot follow a simple liturgical rule, how do you expect lay Catholics like us to follow what you preach at Mass. Live what you preach.
Don't worry. I did not quote any authority on the last one.
i maybe too slow, but I understand what you mean. We should never dance during the Holy Mass as it is . We can always dance somewhere else, but not in the Holy Mass. It is sad that some resort to quoting scriptures out of context.
ReplyDeletei watched the video. wow, that's a liturgical dance. fortunately, those kids are not like those in US, dancing seductive ballet in front of the tabernacle. the song is beautiful, it should have focused on Christ not on the dancing kids.
i am very slow, and maybe I lack vocabulary skills, but how can this statement 'quoting authorities is a sign of intellectual prowess' be rude? Diba prowess means skill or bravery? thus intellectual prowess means something like intellectual skills? He seems to be praising Despues Miguel for quoting an authority.
You can dance naked (as David did) or clothed in worship as an act of private devotion. But this is not acceptable in community devotions and especially in the Mass.
ReplyDeleteAlso what's wrong in quoting authority especially if the man being quoted has authority from Christ himself? Quoting the Pope is a sign of "intellectual prowess". After all Benedict is hard to read if one does not think at the same time.
David danced at the streets of the Holy Land to praise and worship Yahweh but NOT during the Jewish temple ceremony which is considered a sacred ritual or even inside the synagogue.
ReplyDeleteThe Pope is infallible we cannot challenge his authority or even underestimate his competency, Since he is chosen to lead the Universal Church by the guidance of the Holy Spirit through the votes of his fellow cardinals.
We must respect the Pope since he is the vicar of Christ and he knows and understands what is the best for the Church than the C.L. (chupunco liturgists).
We are there to worship the Lord not to have a disco or entertainment or even a ballet show. LITURGICAL DANCE IS A FORM OF PAGANISM INSIDE THE MASS NOT EVEN THE VATICAN II STATES THAT LITURGICAL DANCES CAN BE PERFORMED. So speaking of the Vatican II council it states that there must be an active participation of the laity well it doesn't give meaning that liturgical dances can be performed during the Mass. So Can you see inside the St. Peter's Basilica that there are sexy and beautiful liturgical dancers? Heck no!!! So what if it is a symbol of Jubilation? Remember dances during the Biblical times are held OUTSIDE the temple for religious feasts not during the ceremony or ritual. The Holy Mass is a FORMAL time to spend with God not for the people's entertainment.