The entire interview was in Tagalog, so I excerpted the part that bothered me BIG TIME. So here's my translation:
Q. Your message regarding the death of Ka Erdy Manalo of the Iglesia ni Cristo.
A.. It is but natural for all of us to return to the Lord and may at the end of our lives may we be with and see the Lord. So I send my condolences to our brethren in the Iglesia for the passing of their leader and may all of us pray that he receives life everlasting. Lord in your love, all of us are hoping that he may receive the blessing of life everlasting.
***
With all due respect your Excellency, Manalo denies the divinity of Christ, he and all INC members do not consider you and me as brethren, he spent his entire life for the destruction of Holy Mother Church, and you pray that he receives life everlasting?
Praying for the dead is one thing, but hoping that someone who lived a life of heresy, apostasy and blasphemy will merit eternal life?!
Unbelievable...simply unbelievable...
Hi,
ReplyDeleteI followed your link and here is the transcript in the original Tagalog:
Q: Mensahe nyo po sa pagpanaw ni Ka Erdy Manalo ng Iglesia ni Cristo.
A: Natural lahat tayo ay babalik tayo sa panginoon at nawa sa katapusan ng ating buhay ay makasama at makita ang panginoon. Kayat inihahatid ko ang aking pakikiramay sa mga kapatid nating iglesia sa yumaong kanilang lider at nawa lahat tayo ay manalanagin na makatanggap siya ng buhay na walang hanggan.Panginoon sa inyung pag-ibig lahat kami ay umaasa na makarating na ang aming kapatid na si ka ernei manalo nawa ay makatanggap ng pagapapala at buhay na walang hanggan.
Frankly, I don't see anything wrong with the Bishop saying "Kayat inihahatid ko ang aking pakikiramay sa mga kapatid nating iglesia...". First, expressing sincere condolence is always
worthy and charitable, and to my understanding, expressing condolences is never intended to be confined to people within the same religion. Secondly, the use of the word "kapatid na iglesia" should not be considered offensive to the Catholic tradition either. I don't see "kapatid na iglesia" in the context translated as "kapatid sa simbahang Katoliko". The bishop did qualify it with the word "iglesia", so it would be more apt to consider that he meant "brethren" in general --- as children of God that we all are, regardless of religion. Indeed CCC 845 refers to "reunite all his children, scattered and led astray...". All His children are brothers in a fundamental way, some are led astray but they still deserve our love and prayers in the hope that they finally reconcile with the Church. A life lived in manifest sin deserves its just punishment, yes. Yet in the final moment, there is only one Judge of salvation, and it is not us the pilgrims. Is it wrong to pray for apostates and heretics? Would praying for the deceased iglesia leader displease God? Perhaps Bishop Cantillas answered this in the latter part of the interview.
Q. Bishop, siguro po ay nakarating na sa Catarman ang balitang pumanaw na po si Ka Erdy Manalo ng iglesia ni Cristo, nais po sana naming humingi ng panalangin tungkol po sa kanyang pagpanaw?
A. Alam natin na ang Iglesia ni Kristo ay isang sekta dito sa pilipinas na ma-impluwensya. Minsan ang itinuturo nga ng Iglesia ay kontra sa turo ng Katoliko pero sa atin naman kung may pumapanaw ay palagi nating iniisip ang magandang buhay sa kabilang mundo. Nakiiisa tayo sa pagdadalamhati ng kanyang mga kasamahan, kanyang mga followers pero gayundin, tayong lahat naman siguro ay nananalangin sa ating Panginoon. Ang Diyos natin ay mapagmahal at nais Niyang tayong lahat ay kanyang mayakap. So, ipinagdadasal natin siya na marating niya rin kung ano man ang buhay niya dito sa mundo. Sa bandang huli alam naman natin na ang Diyos ay nagbibigay sa atin ng pagkakataon na makita sa kanyang pagpanaw.
Peace,
-WillyJ
All those who are outside the Catholic church which was founded by Jesus Christ there is not salvation. Hell down they go, except if they repent and accept the catholic faith on their death bed. Deo gratias.
DeleteThanks for the comments WillyJ.
ReplyDeleteThe latter part you quoted was from the interview with the Bishop of Catarman. I was bothered by the response of the Bishop of Maasin. I think you got it all mixed up.
I think it is not just the mere fact of praying for a deceased blasphemer that is disturbing, but for a Catholic bishop to publicly state that he is hoping that a man who lived in manifest sin will merit salvation.
I am not judging where Manalo is headed but for a Catholic bishop to even hope that Manalo receives it goes WAY beyond being politically correct and of showing Christian charity.
Its a good thing you mentioned the response of Bishop Emmanuel Trance of Catarman. I liked the way he answered the question better than Bishop Cantillas. His response does not raise eyebrows. Very eloquently said.
Just out of curiosity, we knew Hitler, Mussolini, Mao, Saddam Hussein, Idi Amin, Joseph Smith, L. Ron Hubbard are all dead and lived a life of sin. The others are mass murderers, the others heretics, apostates. But the bottom line, they lived a life of sin.
Would you pray for their salvation? Maybe you will, maybe you won't. Maybe I will, maybe I won't. It's a private thing. It's something you do in the privacy of your own home, just as Christ said that when we pray to lock ourselves in our rooms.
But one doesn't tell people, especially if you are a Catholic bishop, who is consecrated to defend and uphold the teachings of the True Faith, to pray for the salvation of those who lived a life of sin and dedicated their lives for the destruction of His Church.
Extra ecclesiam, nulla salus. "Outside the Church there is no salvation" This declaration of the Church is not aimed at those who do not know Christ. These men knew Christ and they instead chose the road to perdition.
CCC 846, 847, and 848 are clear on our role to evangelize them. But CCC 846 is clear about salvation.
The popes were also clear about the issue of the salvation of heretics.
Pope Eugene IV, Council of Florence, “Cantate Domino,” 1441:
“The Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that all those who are
outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans but also Jews or heretics and schismatics,
cannot share in eternal life and will go into the everlasting fire which was prepared for
the devil and his angels, unless they are joined to the Church before the end of their
lives…”
Pope Pius XII, Mystici Corporis Christi (# 23), June 29, 1943:
“For not every sin, however grave it may be, is such as of its own nature to sever a man
from the Body of the Church, as does schism or heresy or apostasy.”
The Church even forbids the public prayer for heretics:
Pope Benedict XIV, Ex Quo Primum (# 23), March 1, 1756:
“Moreover heretics and schismatics are subject to the censure of major excommunication by
the law of Can. de Ligu. 23, quest. 5, and Can. Nulli, 5, dist. 19. But the sacred canons of the
Church forbid public prayer for the excommunicated as can be seen in chap. A nobis,
2, and chap. Sacris on the sentence of excommunication. Though this does not forbid
prayer for their conversion, still such prayer must not take the form of proclaiming
their names in the solemn prayer during the sacrifice of the Mass."
Pope Pius IX, Quartus Supra (# 9), January 6, 1873:
“For this reason John, Bishop of Constantinople, solemnly declared – and the entire Eighth Ecumenical Council did so later – ‘that the names of those who were separated
from communion with the Catholic Church, that is of those who did not agree in all
matters with the Apostolic See, are not to be read out during the sacred mysteries.’
Yes, it is up to God to judge where we go. But Holy Mother Church forbids us to publicly pray for heretics.
AND for a Catholic bishop to even insinuate... is simply...UNBELIEVABLE.
Hi,
ReplyDeleteI did get the two interviews mixed up. Sorry about that.
Anyway, I'm sure you noticed that the Bishop of Catarman likewise encouraged prayer: "So, ipinagdadasal natin siya na marating niya rin kung ano man ang buhay niya dito sa mundo." So, it appears both bishops had the same sentiments, albeit in different words.
Yes, Jesus cautioned against praying in public as the Pharisees do. The intent was not to discourage public communal praying per se,
but to emphasize praying with the heart and not for show. We know that the Christian tradition of prayers is for private instances as well as for public worship gatherings, each with its intended motivation and purpose.
I would opine there is a world of difference in condemning an act as against condemning a person. Of course the person cannot be dissociated with the evil act he commits, and that is why we have consequences. The question is whether the person committing a grave act (with full knowledge and consent or otherwise) is redeemable in the eyes of God, and whether inner conversion occurred at any point before death. For example, we remember how the late Pope John Paul II went out of his way to treat Mehmet Ali Agca with charity, for an offense which carried automatic excommunication. As I read it, the Popes you mentioned above warned against public prayer for abject heretics and schismatics (certainly grave acts), but I take "public prayer" here to mean in Mass or in community liturgy prayers. So then, did Bishops Cantillan and Trance mean private, or public prayers? If they meant public prayers as I understand it here, then I am with you.
Also, I wouldn't hope eternal fire even for the most manifest sinner: for Manalo, Smith, and even for Hitler. I do condemn their acts however. Some might certainly deserve eternal punishment, yet I wouldn't hope it on them. But maybe that's just me. On this note, we are not sure if Manalo is on the route to eternal fire, and how any prayers for him could bear out. Catholic dogma at least tells us that offering our suffrages here on earth has a positive effect on lessening the suffering of souls in Purgatory. To what extent, it is not defined. We can only be sure that God's justice exacts its rightful price. In addition, merit is also given to those who offer intercessory prayers, as this is certainly also an act of charity. Charity can never be misplaced, when there are pure intentions and there is no contraint in expressing it at will.
My personal disappointment in relation to this is that the Catholic Church is way too passive in countering the wanton attacks of dissenters, heretics, and schismatics in the public sphere. In the case of INC, we know how they regularly attack Catholicism in various public fora, while the Church has been incredibly feeble in acting to defend itself rightfully. That is what I find unbelievable. In the face of assaults to the faith, the flock certainly misses sound, active cathechesis and apologetics, and that is why nominal Catholics fall easy prey to the machinations of the other side. This should change, and vigorously. Perhaps Bp Cantillan is unwittingly causing some scandal due to his words at this time, but this passing moment requires some prudence as it is a period of mourning for many of our countrymen. What I am saying is that praying (privately I mean) for Manalo is praiseworthy and meritorious, yet it is also our duty to vigorously defend the Church against actions which seek to undermine it. We may have been sorely remiss in the latter aspect, but there should be more opportunities going forward.
Well written Willy.
ReplyDeleteBishop Cantillas should have been more prudent.
For me, this statement drew the same reaction as the action of Abp. Wuerl of Washington giving Communion to Sen. John Kerry and of Card. O'Malley of Boston attending and giving the final commendation during the Funeral Mass of Sen. Ted Kennedy.
There is such a thing as public scandal and people in positions of authority MUST BE the first one to exercise prudence. After all, I wouldn't have reacted if Bishop Cantillas did not say those words.
Come to think of it...judging from his words and the way bishops are not doing catechesis and apologetics, except Abp. Dosado of Ozamis, it is not surprising that they do not care if heretics, schismatics and blasphemers are ganging up on the Church. We are being slapped on the left cheek and we lovingly offer the right with no reason whatsoever. Has our witness of brotherly Christian love doing its job of bringing them the light of the Gospel?
It is a shame that the country is the only Catholic country in Asia and yet we are one of the most corrupt country in the world. Why?
I have a guess. Those who are entrusted to preach the Gospel failed MISERABLY!
There is no such thing as sin, heresy, blasphemy.
Only global warming, peace and justice, charter change.
So many kings...so few priests
Take heart brother. The gates of Hades will never prevail.
ReplyDeleteKeep it up. We need people like you around.
God bless,
- WillyJ
Thanks Willy. Comments and suggestions like these keeps the fire going for TPC. Pax vobiscum!
ReplyDeleteThe bishop was in serious error... is he poorly catechized or he just want to sound more friendly and ecumenical?
ReplyDeleteThis is seriously damaging. Rather let's pray that his soul may rest in peace.
Exactly my point Church Defender! I think he is both. Being too politically correct is born out of ignorance of the Faith.
ReplyDeleteBy the way... whose soul are we going to pray for rest?
In my opinion let God be the judge of the soul of Ka Erdy, And may his soul rest in peace...
ReplyDeleteKa Erdy does'nt care about us Catholics he only cares about his iglesia business especially destroying the doctrines of our Catholic Faith. Even when Pope John Paul died or Card. Sin I think he didn't even sent messages of condolences nor representatives.
Frankly I admit the bishop was in error of course and should not execute those words.
Did the iglesia people heard those messages? If they do they will have a big head in the end. And maybe some of their ministers will say, "The Catholic Church is giving up to us! It proves that we are the true church."
The messages of the said Bishop is neither good or bad, why Good? because: Christ said, "Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you"
It's bad because as a part of the clergy he should be loyal to his faith and of the Church. And to defend the Catholic Church from anti-catholics.
“THE HOLY ROMAN CHURCH FIRMLY BELIEVES, PROFESSES AND PREACHES THAT ALL THOSE WHO ARE OUTSIDE THE CATHOLIC CHURCH, NOT ONLY PAGANS BUT ALSO JEWS OR HERETICS AND SCHISMATICS, CANNOT SHARE IN ETERNAL LIFE AND WILL GO INTO THE EVERLASTING FIRE WHICH WAS PREPARED FOR THE DEVIL AND HIS ANGELS, UNLESS THEY ARE JOINED TO THE CHURCH BEFORE THE END OF THEIR LIVES; that the unity of this ecclesiastical body is of such importance that only for those who abide in it do the Church’s sacraments contribute to salvation and do fasts, almsgiving and other works of piety and practices of the Christian militia produce eternal rewards; and that NOBODY CAN BE SAVED, NO MATTER HOW MUCH HE HAS GIVEN AWAY IN ALMS AND EVEN IF HE HAS SHED BLOOD IN THE NAME OF CHRIST, UNLESS HE HAS PERSEVERED IN THE BOSOM AND UNITY OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH.”
ReplyDelete[Pope Eugene IV, Council of Florence, “Cantate Domino,” 1441, ex cathedra]
“IT IS IMPOSSIBLE FOR THE MOST TRUE GOD, who is Truth itself, the best, the wisest Provider, and the Rewarder of good men, TO APPROVE ALL SECTS WHO PROFESS FALSE TEACHINGS which are often inconsistent with one another and contradictory, AND TO CONFER ETERNAL REWARDS ON THEIR MEMBERS… by divine faith we hold one Lord, one faith, one baptism… THIS IS WHY WE PROFESS THAT THERE IS NO SALVATION OUTSIDE THE CHURCH.”
[Pope Leo XII, Ubi Primum (# 14), May 5, 1824]