This gave me a migraine...
Neither fun, NOR HOLY and must not be done in the Philippines or any part of the Catholic world.
Who do you think is worshipped here? Yeah, they'd say its the Lord. But who gets plus points for making it more "fun and entertaining"?
No wonder they hate worshipping like this.
No chance to take the spotlight.
Damn narcissist!
Hmmm...why do I have this impression that they are gesturing to the song "Girls Just Wanna Have Fun" by Cyndi Lauper...in the Mass (perhaps in honor of the holy women of the Bible, as an act of "liberating" them? Ha! Ha!).
ReplyDeleteOr is this Ang Dating Daan (yes, not Dating Doon) Catholic Church chapter?
My, my.
One of the three "raise-the-roofers" pa naman is personally known to me...and though this is just ONE photo and it may be unChristian of me, but I cannot resist (especially as I am [cowardly] hiding behind the cloak of anonymity) to say: the "no chance to take the spotlight" is just ermmm...spot on, at least with this personal acquaintance.
(I hope the last remark does not count as "backstabbing." Ha! Ha!)
Announcement purposes po. Thank you.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=324269327614890&set=a.192880360753788.39747.191348987573592&type=1&theater
http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/s720x720/419831_324269327614890_191348987573592_872438_12848595_n.jpg
Thank you Ed!
DeleteToo bad really, too bad. This may come as a shocker, but that young priest in the middle is a parish priest from the Diocese of Parañaque - used to celebrate, defend, and encourages other priests to celebrate the Traditional Mass back in 2009 when Summorum Pontificum has just been enforced. Myself, and that recently professed Filipino friar from Papastronsay have been his servers in his TLMs. Ironic, since we even used to celebrate it in St. Jerome, in Alabang. This is not to put down this priest since I owe some of the graces of the Lord from him, especially when almost no one in the diocese wants to celebrate TLM at that time, save him and another 4. It really makes me wonder what happened to this priest. In all fairness to him, he did even incorporate many reverent gestures and allowable rubrics of the TLM in his Novus Ordo Masses. Nakakapagtaka talaga bakit nagkaganito. And it saddens me that he should have been a proponent on how to celebrate the liturgy properly to the end! Bottomline, let's not quick to judge. Let's pray most especially, NOT for our Novus Ordo priests butchering the Mass, but for those few who are celebrating, learning sometimes secretly to offer the Mass of the Ages. Of course let's pray for all priests, and a special intention maybe a Mass for Fr.___f.
ReplyDeleteDear The Pinoy Catholic, Coach and the Postmodernist,
ReplyDeleteI'm a member of the Young Adults Ministry of the Our Lady of the Pillar Parish. I play the drums and beat box in our prayer meetings, I'm 36 years old. It's been 8 years since I joined YAM but I've been serving the Lord for almost 24 years. This priest happens to be YAM Priest and one of our closes and dearest friend in our community, and this happens to be one of his pics during the Easter Vigil at SJWP (the community singing "Papuri sa Diyos" with gusto and hand gestures)that was posted in the "It's more fun in the Philippines" mania.. who are you to judge him and accused him of making fun of the mass.. Who ever posted it in "It's more fun in the Philippines" meant to be a funny pic of the priest. If you knew this priest well enough, you will also react the way I'm reacting right now. He is an extraordinary priest with high regards for the mass, as far as i know he follows every protocol and detail of the mass. Grabe kayo! shame on you for judging the man too quickly. Bakit masama bang magworship kay God? I may not be a priest or as geniuses like you when it comes to Old Traditional Masses. But i know how to pray and I know how to worship our God.
In (Mark 12:28-30) one of the teachers of the law had asked Jesus of all the commandments, which is the most important. Jesus’ answer was to love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, & with all your strength. To love God is the most important thing we will ever do, now & for all eternity.
As we love the Lord & worship Him, we are to worship Him with all of our heart, with everything that we have. We need to worship with all of our mind, our thoughts, our focus, & our attention needs to be on Him. As we worship Him with all our strength, we need to use our bodies, to worship Him by clapping, or raising our hands, or whatever the Lord is asking us to
do.
We need to worship the Lord wholeheartedly; in sincerity & truth. Wholeheartedly – means to be completely and sincerely devoted. It means to be determined, or enthusiastic, to be heartfelt, passionate, & genuine. The word half-hearted means – lukewarm, or passive, lacking heart, spirit, or interest, unenthusiastic.
We don’t want to offer half-hearted, lukewarm praise to the Lord. He deserves worship that comes from deep inside our hearts. He deserves the highest praise. We need to worship Him with passionate hearts. We need to be enthusiastic, & excited about our worship. We need to be willing to give Him what He deserves. Our worship must be genuine & sincere. (by Charla Miller)
Now I'd like to ask you nicely if you know this priest well you would stop talking about him in this way. Stop being a crab.. God bless you, and pray for all the priest that they may have the strength to withstand criticisms and judgments from other people.
Dear Paolo,
DeleteYou just wrote it yourself.
"this happens to be one of his pics during the Easter Vigil at SJWP (the community singing "Papuri sa Diyos" with gusto and hand gestures)that was posted in the "It's more fun in the Philippines" mania."
Where in the Catholic Church's liturgical laws that such a thing as singing the Gloria can be done with hand gestures?
Read what the Church commands its priests and laity on how to worship in public.
Tell your priest to read this post and I can engage him in a discussion about this.
I have my Facebook account.
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100003229689370
I am ready.
Paolo, ask your priest to have his Masses videotaped, post it on YouTube and I will personally send it to his bishop and to the Congregation for Divine Worship and Discipline of the Sacraments.
DeleteAsk him if he is willing.
Eto lang ang masasabi ko sayo..
Delete"Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful. Stop judging, and you will never be judged. Stop condemning, and you will never be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven." - Luke 6:37
if you truly are a Catholic you will understand what the verse means.
God bless you..
I used to be a member of Singles for Christ, and now with Couples for Christ (CFC-South sector). I'm 31 years old and have been our Music Ministry for 5 years, and became the Music Min head in one of the southern Manila chapters for 2 years. I play the drums, the beat box, the guitar, and the bass. And YES, I am very supportive of the Charismatic movement. In case you misread my post, I never judged Fr. ___f. I merely relayed my observations of him when he used to celebrate the Traditional Mass, and how he even offered the Novus Ordo in a very reverent way. I also relayed to TPC how saddened I am about how this priest eventually butchers the liturgy by disregarding the rubrics of Holy Mother Church.
Delete"As far as i know he follows every protocol and detail of the mass."
-The problem Paolo is that what you know is not FAR ENOUGH. You know little to nothing about the required movements and gestures a priest should do during the most august Sacrifice to glorify God. Otherwise, you won't even use this argument to defend him.
"In (Mark 12:28-30) one of the teachers of the law had asked Jesus of all the commandments, which is the most important. Jesus’ answer was to love the Lord your God with all your heart..."
- True, but John 14:15&21 says: "IF YOU LOVE ME, YOU WILL KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS...He who has My commandments and keeps them IS THE ONE WHO LOVES ME; and he who loves Me will be loved by My Father." This preaching of Our Lord applies, especially to priests for them to keep the commandments of Our Lord, as taught by His Church. Matthew 28:18 Jesus says to His Apostles: "TEACH THEM TO OBEY EVERYTHING I HAVE COMMANDED YOU." This includes the directive and liturgical laws enacted by the Church Jesus founded. Reject this then you do not obey. If you do not obey His commandments, then you do not really love God but yourself.
"As we love the Lord & worship Him, we are to worship Him with all of our heart, with everything that we have...As we worship Him with all our strength, we need to use our bodies, to worship Him by clapping, or raising our hands, or whatever the Lord is asking us to do."
Delete- This is not what the Lord is "asking us to do." As Our Lord would say: "You worship what you do not know; we worship what we know." What the Lord asks of us is what the bible says in John 4:23 "the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth." Now the truth is that to love God is to accept and obey Christ, and to obey Christ is to obey the commands and directives of the Church, including how we should worship God, in the most highest form of prayer - the Holy Mass - and not by the whims and preferences of a priest.
"We don’t want to offer half-hearted, lukewarm praise to the Lord. He deserves worship that comes from deep inside our hearts. He deserves the highest praise. We need to worship Him with passionate hearts. We need to be enthusiastic, & excited about our worship. We need to be willing to give Him what He deserves. Our worship must be genuine & sincere. (by Charla Miller)"
- I would rather go to what the bible says: “We are from God, and whoever knows God listens to us; BUT WHOEVER IS NOT FROM GOD DOES NOT LISTEN TO US. This is how we recognize the Spirit of truth and the spirit of falsehood.” -1 John 4:6. The Apostle John clearly settles who indeed worships God in spirit and in truth. Our Lord reminds and warns us: "Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who DOES THE WILL OF MY FATHER" - Matthew 7:21. To love God is to obey Christ (Mt. 17:5), and of obey Christ is to follow the directives and commands of the Church, INCLUDING HOW SHE WORSHIPS, (and not necessarily how your priests thinks we should worship).
Paolo, stop being a Protestant, and start being a Catholic. Obey the Church, follow and read your bible: "But those elders who are sinning you are to reprove before everyone...DO NOTHING OUT OF FAVORITISM." -1 Timothy 5:20 For the love of God, tell Father to "die in himself" and to obey the liturgical laws mandated by the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church!
Paolo,
DeleteMy apologies to you if my way of reacting to this photo seemed harsh and as I said already "unChristian."
But I stand by the essential point which obviously have been obscured by my own indignation at how the Mass is being celebrated by your beloved priests.
This is not about TLM ("Old Traditional Masses" to you) versus the post-Vatican II / Novus Ordo Mass (perhaps "New" or "Current" Mass to you).
This is about how one OUGHT to celebrate the Holy Mass as the highest prayer that we have and therefore a celebration that must be done in keeping with the dignity and sublimity that is proper to it.
I do not question the sincerity and honesty and other similar positive and proper attributes and attitudes of your priests towards the Mass. I am questioning the FORM that they are showing it especially as guardians of the sublimity and dignity of the Mass and other liturgical celebrations.
Don't tell me that for worship to be sincere and wholehearted, it must [always] involve bodily movements like clapping or raising hands...
And while clapping, raising hands, jumping, etc. may be valid forms of one's PERSONAL worship or prayer style, one is advised not to do so in the official liturgies of the Church as these actions (along with playing drums, electric guitars, in fact, any guitar, etc.) have also been strongly associated with non-religious even "satanic" (I am being extreme) events.
To be on the safe side, to safeguard the sacred celebrations of the Church, the Church does not allow such during Her liturgies. (Plus, not all are comfortable with clapping, raising hands and the like when praying...how about them?)
Call it conservative. Even ultra conservative. Call it "killjoy" or whatever you like. But it is these "conservative" actions, these "limited" bodily gestures, these prescribed movements are those which we normally associate with what is holy and mysterious and dignified, and, for the umpteenth time, these are what safeguards the Mass from all sorts of abuses and even disrespect.
Your priests ought to know these.
If it's your own private prayer time, go ahead. Dance and clap to your heart's content if this will facilitate your prayer. If it's a charismatic prayer meeting or youth camp worship time - sure these are tolerated (although silence and solemnity would still be the preference, at least having moments of these).
But not in the Mass. Not in the sacraments. Not in the public and official liturgical celebrations of the Church.
To safeguard the solemnity. To safeguard from abuses. To preserve the dignity and sublimity of our highest prayer.
Think about these: when men propose marriage to women, usually, how do they do it? By clapping and raising hands and dancing? These happen after the "yes", but not during the specific moment of proposal. Usually, men are serious and sublime, even stiff with nervous, when they propose.
When a loved one dies, especially if we know that this loved one led a good life and so chances are, she is in a "much better place", do you clap for joy upon knowledge of her death (since you strongly believe that she went to heaven)? Though it is possible that you have the RIGHT AND SINCERE intention for clapping your hands upon knowing the death of this "good" loved one - other people may interpret it for something else...
If you do not clap and raise the roof during such special human moments TO PRESERVE THEIR DIGNITY how much more for the Mass?
I hope you got my point (of course, "my" is misleading here since I am simply upholding the point and reason on this matter - among many others - of the Church).
This blog entry reminds me clearly of what Jesus meant in this passage Mk 7: 1-13. One of the reasons why many Catholics leave the Church (esp the young) is because of our failure to adapt to change. We focus too much on the strict observance of the "laws" and fail to see that in the end the Church should facilitate the growth of our relationship with God. The main reason why Vatican II was convened is for the Church to welcome the necessary changes that will bring growth in the faith of the people. We now live in that era not in the time of the Council of Trent.
ReplyDeleteThis people honors me with their lips,
but their hearts are far from me;
In vain do they worship me,
teaching as doctrines human precepts.
Anakin, answer this first before you quote any Bible passage ok?
DeleteThe Church has laws on how we worship publicly.
Quote me a Church law where this kind of worshiping in the Mass is allowed or permitted?
Until you find one, I'll keep this post up.
Anakin,
DeleteRemember too that Christ said in Matthew 5:17-18 that He did not come to abolish the law but to fulfill them. Christ did fulfill all the laws. Then He passed on to His apostles His manner of fulfilling the laws. His apostles in turn organized the Church that we now have (I am overly simplifying things here for the sake of brevity). And (to shortcut it), we have existing laws on worship, promulgated by the successors of the apostles. And obedience to these laws is not only commendable, it is one of the marks of being Catholic - obedience to the Magisterium based on trust that there is reason behind these laws and the strict adherence that they are demanding.
That is where all these talk will boil down in the end: do you trust enough the Church to obey Her laws? Do you believe that the authors behind the Church laws are guided by the Holy Spirit or not?
Now, with regard this whole thing about Vatican II, while it was a Church Council called to update matters in the Church, nowhere in it can you find a watering down of essential things which include the dignity and sublimity that our liturgies deserve (which is the point of departure of all this conversation). The form have been changed. But not the manner of respect and reverence that we should accord to them.
And why do you seem to diss the Council of Trent? That is just so Protestant. All Church Councils build up on the agreements, wisdom and reflections of previous Church Councils.
People leave the Catholic Church for many reasons. One of them is failure to understand (and appreciate) what the Catholic Church is about especially along the lines of unconditional and even loving obedience to Church laws. "Rome (that is, the seat of the Catholic Church) has spoken, the case has ended" used to inspire awe and even love in people. Now, that same statement incites anger and indignation. Why is that?
And people fail to understand the Catholic Church precisely because many of Her priests fail at their duty to study and reflect and therefore be able to give the right catechesis to their flock.
Finally Anakin,
DeleteI shall throw back at you your ending which is what Christ quoted from the prophet Isaiah:
This people honors me with their lips,
(- yes, along with their hands clapping and raised and seeing such bodily gestures of praise as "livelier" - and therefore, more "enjoyable", "more sincere", and "more wholehearted" forms of worship)
but their hearts are far from me;
(- since they are more concerned with "feeling good" when they worship rather than being unconditional with whatever disposition the Lord may inspire them, they are more concerned with being "entertained" in the Mass rather than reflecting on the mysteries that they are partaking in, they are more interested in "talkshow-gameshow-priests" rather than the sombre and often serious figure of Christ, they cannot or would not worship the Lord in silence)
In vain do they worship me,
(- since they fail to understand the liturgies of the Church, why they are done in such a manner; they receive Holy Communion thinking that what they receive is simply a "symbol of Christ", they sing all sorts of songs in the liturgies so long as it will evoke lively sentiments in them instead of those that correctly express what they believe, they equate Vatican II worship as "anything can go so long as you are sincere in your intentions" - sincerity, unfortunately, is not enough. you can have the best and sincerest of intentions and yet commit wrong actions like intending to worship God, but do so "as you want it, when you want, how you want it")
teaching as doctrines human precepts.
(- the "doctrines" of priests who supposedly ought to know better but teach all sorts of crazy even heretical things from dissing pre-Vatican II worship, to saying that Christ did not multiply bread but that the people with Him simply shared their "baons", to dancing and swaying in what was supposed to be a solemn celebration of the Mass, to preaching that there are no more such things as "one-hour eucharistic facts" nor that there are still "mortal sins" so long as at the end of the day, you still have the fundamental option for God)
Sometimes, Anakin, if obedience cannot be inspired or compelled, the reasons for it must be studied.
Have you? Will you?
PEOPLE,
ReplyDeleteWho thinks that the last photo is a Traditional Latin Mass or EF Mass?